Wednesday, April 26, 2006

Wednesday Run

Distance: 12km
Time: 1:01:25
Pace: slow
Location: on my own from Regatta, through gardens, then back to Regatta via Southbank.
Exertion: legs felt tired and dead - but they are still there!!

Tuesday, April 25, 2006

Anzaz Day Run

Went out for a run tonight after a full day of Anzac celebrations.

Have no idea of distance, just ran for 59mins and felt great but slow.

Very emotional run as I was in full kit from the marathon and even when I turned on my ipod it was paused on the song that was playing when I got to the 42km mark in Canberra. (I paused it then so I could hear the crowd for the last 200m).

Monday, April 24, 2006

I'm Back

Totally inspired over the weekend. Spent the day with the kids and the nights with hubby. Ate and drank all weekend but had a ball and mentally am ready for an enslaught of training.

Headed to the gym this morning and did 20min hills on the bike followed by some weights.

Will be at the Dawn Service tomorrow (4:28am) but will do a run immediately afterwards.

Officially....today marks my comeback.

Friday, April 21, 2006

Going Back to Canberra

Fly out next week to head back to Canberra for 4 days. Will be good to make the trip to pick up my running Mojo that I seem to have left behind. (forget the fact that my sister is actually getting married.....)

Coming home after the Marathon I had fully anticipated a lot of things - little running for the first week, immmuno suppressed body, and depression. This was all catered for as my pre-race strategy had included preparation for this.

POST MARATHON RUNNING:
I took 5 days off with no running at all. Then hubby took me out for a 4km run. It was good to get moving again. Two days later I went out for another run - 8km easy with Chris's training group. Again, the legs felt great but I just didn't get into it. I haven't run since Tuesday and am starting to feel fat, tired, grumpy and useless.

IMMUNE SYSTEM - POST RACE:
I ate healthily the week after the marathon up to Easter. No alcohol, low fat, lots of veges etc. This was good for the body and I managed to not feel tired or get any colds or flus or even much muscle soreness after day two.

DEPRESSION:
Not often talked about but certainly in all the marathon books etc to watch out for. I am just not the type to suffer from depression however my lack of motivations is a form of depression I am starting to think.
I purposely set myself some goal races for after Canberra so I would not feel this way and would be keen to get back into training. But it doesn't seem to be working. Tess isn't out there running with me and it seems everyone else is training for Brisbane Marathon so doing long long runs. I am not ready to kill myself at speed training just yet so have not been back to Pat Carrolls session with all my mates either.
I just keep thinking....I had the perfect race - what else is there?

I know I need to pull my finger out and kickstart my running but the kit kats and alcohol that I have been avoiding for three months now are my best friends.

On top of all that my hip is giving me grief - not when I run but certainly when I have been sitting for a period of time. Maybe Tess is right - all this inactivity is just not good for us!
Off to the Sports Doctor to get a professional opinion and will keep you updated.

Tuesday, April 11, 2006

2006 CANBERRA MARATHON

Oh My goodness, I am now a marathoner!

Even on the morning of the race I was extremely nervous. Some things you just can't control. JD and Tess were absolute legends in talking me through it and calming me down. I also replayed all the great things everyone has been telling me over the past few weeks in my head and that helped as well.

I think I was more nervous about letting everyone down and making a fool of myself than anything else.

I did a 400m warmup - was going to do longer but when I ran from the start line down 200m I say the sign saying 42km and I felt like vomiting so I then turned around and went back to the start.

Found Tesso and we lined up like giggly girls all ready for the big suprise.

For the first 2km I was grinning from ear to ear. I couldn't believe I was running a marathon. It was wonderful and to have Tesso there beside me was just like in my dreams.

At around the 3km mark I saw Tara and Ciaran ditch their clothes so I took my jacket off too and threw it on the pile beside the road. My gloves I kept with me the whole race!
I got to the 5km drink table and looked at my watch - WTF it said 29mins. I then pushed on and tried to get in front of the 3:30 group that I was running behind. I felt better when I got to the 10km mark as I was in front of schedule. I couldn't work it out. Later Tess told me the 5km Drink Station was not at 5km it was closer to 6km mark. Now I understand!

So at 11km I caught up with RobertSong and we ran together for quite some time taking turns in front. At 12km I pulled back a bit after some lovely woman told me I was running too fast and would burn up and hit the wall shortly. By 16km I threw her nasty words out of my head and got back on track to my plan.

At 17km I saw my dad on the side of the road and slowed enough to tell him I loved him. I then continued up the rise and then the downhill that follows to the turnaround. I saw Dad again on the way back and he had crossed the road to slap my hand as I ran past. I felt very happy and stong here.

Soon after I went through the half marathon point and looked at my watch for the last time. It said 1:41:50. I was stocked. When I got back to Cow Bell corner and there was the CR cheer squad in full regalia I got all excited again. But it totally blew me away when I saw Pat standing waiting for me to come around. He ran up to me and slapped my hand and told me to keep it strong I was doing well. Nothing like a pep talk to make you run hard :)
The guys around me said "you have lots of support here today" and I told them it was my first one and they all nodded and smiled secretly. I then vowed to beat every one of them and not hit the wall as they expected me too.
Coach Chris was a big support out there and kept me going with good vibes and waves and cheers. It is just undescribable to say how that sort of support just lifts you up.
The 30km mark soon approached on the way out to Black Mountain and I told the guys I was with...this is where the race starts and I upped the pace a bit to break away. Silly childish girl :)

Around 32km I saw my Dad again and went up then down the rise to the turnaround for the final time. After he saw me so ill from the 10km run last year I had to be strong for him so just before the 34km when I saw him again I puffed up my chest and put on a big smile and slapped his hand and told him I would see him later. He had to be a church at 10am so I knew he wouldn't see me finish. But just having him out there for several hours was so good for me.

Coming in to the finish all the coolrunners i was passing on the other side were calling out to me and I can barely recall the final few km's as it is a blur of support and good wishes.

Sue (Pat Carroll's) Missus came up to me around 41km I think and she was screaming at me and so so happy for me that I got all emotional and started crying. I calmed myself down but it was hard - I was so emotional. I realised then I could finish the race as long as I got to the next corner in one piece.

I had also just gone past Luckylegs and Horrie and this was also emotional. Both of them are inspirational to me and I felt a swell of pride that I knew who they were and what they were doing out there. I am proud to be a coolrunner and to know all this wonderful people and see them doing amazing things. It is a feeling only other coolrunners will know. A community spirit like no other I have seen.

Near here, I saw a girl a pink hat in front of me and just focussed on reeling her in. Damn it, at the same time she pulled away and was reeling in others in front of her! We were both getting faster but even though I gained on her slightly I was never going to catch her. At the 42km mark I didn't care, I knew then I was going to finish this marathon without hitting the wall, 42.2km without walking or stopping or feeling any major pain. 42.2km of hard work that was the most rewarding of all my runs I have done.

I looked up and saw both sides full of people screaming at me. I saw Truckie (bright green suit helps distinguish him!!) and heard the blur of others. I then looked up at the clock and say 3:22 and almost burst out crying then. I crossed in an official time of 3:23:14.

I saw Mark at the finish (iliketoast) and just clung to him whilst I sobbed on his shoulder. Little did he know that he was also holding me up! My legs had turned to jelly as soon as the tears started. I calmed down and just grinned and grinned. I looked around for someone and there she was....good Ole Tesso at the finish line with a gigantic grin on her face!!! We hugged and cried together and I will remember it for the rest of my life. I got some water and had a tap on my shoulder.....it was my dad. He had given up church to see me finish and that was a big thing. I was ecstatic and hugged him and he told me how proud I had made him. He knows nothing about running but he knew I had achieved/bettered my goal of 3:30. I found out later he had texted my whole family 8 times during the race about how I was in front of the 3:30 train. No-one knew exactly what my dad meant but thought it was exciting ha ha. My beloved Allan knew and he held his breath the whole way until he got Dad's final text.
I had done it. I had run my first marathon and my mind is still boggling with the result. Thanks to absolutely everyone one of you out there for your support and your calming efforts pre-race and for the big cheers afterwards. It made my experience greater to share it with you all. xxxxxx

Lots of love,
Clairie - the Marathoner.

Friday, April 07, 2006

It's Time

It is 5am. I am tired. Not sleeping well at all this week.

Will try to be in bed nice and early tonight if I can.

I have to leave in an hours time and I have not packed. My ipod that had all my carefully picked songs on it decided to delete them all when I reconnected after loading some mp3's last night so I was up till 11pm trying to recall the order I had them in. Gave up and whacked the library on it so now counting on a suprise to great me every 4mins out there on Sunday :)

I have not actually been NERVOUS until now. The cold weather has really put doubts into my head but I think I am using that as an excuse, surely cold weather will only make me run faster. But do I wear short skins or long......???

This week has gone so fast. A few short runs in absolute extreme humidity and heat - each of them leaving me feeling very hot, sweaty and exhausted. And none of them have been at faster than race pace or for long periods. It has just been that humid - our Tuesday run was 23 degrees and 95% humidity at 6am.

I haven't really been carboloading much. Just eating extra helpings, though I have been drinking way more than usual - with powerade mostly. Yesterday afternoon I had a big handful of chico babes (lollies) does that count? Today I will ensure I eat well and not let my nerves dictate my diet. much.

So here we are. I have 60mins to pack. Not to fear my race kit is in my rucksack already. It is just everything else. I have a list so I FEEL organised.

My race plan is imbedded in my head and I keep reminding myself to go out slow. The first 5km I plan to do in 26mins. Then build it up from there.

I have had so much support over the lead into Canberra and it has been great and until this week I was floating and gloating on all that support. It truly has been wonderful that so many people can provide me with advice, reassurance, warm hugs, positive vibes and all the rest that you all do for me. Then I came crashing down when someone phoned to say "you still have to run the race, and only you can do that".

I think somewhere along the line I got so caught up in the hub of training for a marathon I forgot I was actually going to have to run this marathon.

Again, reading Superflakes blog I was reminded - It will be hard. It is a challenge. That is why I wanted to do this in the first place. IT WILL NOT BE EASY. I have to keep telling myself so at 10km or 35km when the going gets tough I don't think 'man no one told me about this' and believe my race is over.

I have a very tough day to get through at work and I can't even think straight. Yesterday I was in a meeting and was noting my splits on a notepad and was very distracted. This marathon has been my life for so long now that I am desperate to prove myself to me and to all of you.

It is funny, I don't have doubts.....just nerves of the unknown.

Thank you for your support along the way. I know also that you will all be supporting me on the day too. That's when I need you and that's also when I can repay you for all your support by showing you that I can do this. I can run a marathon and enjoy it and work hard and achieve my goals.

I'll log on before I fly out at 3pm. See you all there Canberra or here in cyberworld next week. *waves, tears and hugs to you all*

Cirque, Hannah, Shane - wish you were coming. :(

Saturday, April 01, 2006

Taper Time

Well and truly felt the taper this morning.

Went out and ran 10km. Tried to run at race pace but could not slow down that much. I felt great and just ran at average of 4:40 pace with some faster and some slower kms.

When it was finished I wanted to keep going and run for much longer. But I didn't.

It was hard to see all my other fellow Canberran's doing 16km this morning but I stuck to my program and just did my 10km.

Now this week I will be sorting out my music and packing my bag and cleaning the house...not much running so gotta fill the gaps somehow.

Won't blog this week as I found reading everyone's posts this weekend very exciting and it made me feel a bit nervous. That and I won't have much to blog!!!!

Have I bitten off more than I can chew? Course not, I am confident but will have to work hard to keep the nerves away now....this time next week I will be a marathoner. Wow!

Friday, March 31, 2006

so much for a taper....

Met up at the Regatta at 6am with the group. Normal stuff. Was hoping for a nice lesuirely 8km run but Coach Chris had other ideas.

There was a journalist there to interview both Chris and myself (and Tess) on Marathon running. As she is also a photographer she headed off before we started with her equipment in the hope of catching us as we ran past.

Sucked in the gut and held the head high but alas....could not do anything to hide the legs. :(

We ran the first 4km in 5min pace out to the turnaround and then Chris came up behind me and told me to keep with him. I had not worn my watch so had no idea of pace at all until after the run. I just kept with him and he said 'plan is to get faster each km - not by much though'. After the first km I was scared. This was fast and I had to get progressively faster??
Hit the hill just before the 2km mark (2km to the finish) and got a dry throat. It was very humid out there and I was sweating heaps and very thirsty. Still am (thirsty that is - not sweaty!!).
He upped the ante again and we got faster. He kept talking to me and telling me how good I was doing but I just responded with 'I can't' and started to slow a bit. Then he told me only 700 more meters to go and that inspired me. I went a bit faster so he kept on me to get faster and faster. We stopped at the 1km (to the finish) mark for the jog home.
Results.... *drum roll please*
4km out @ 5min/km
1km 4:33min/km
1km 4:20min/km
1km 3:56min/km
1km 5:15min/km - pulled up 10m short at the water bubbler.

Oh it was good to finish and I feel very confident now that I am going to cope with Canberra. Yeah clairie is going to kick butt!!!! (watch out Eddie...)

That's it now, no more runs of anything faster than 5min/km pace. No more long runs. Less than 20km all up to be run in the next 8days till Canberra. This is getting very very exciting.

Thursday, March 30, 2006

What the hell is going on???

someone is poisoning me...I am sure of it.

I had a good solid meal last night - and ate early as well. Long time coming!
Then had the best sleep (without need of laundry bucket) and woke up feeling very refreshed.

Went to Pats speed session. I was devastated. He was all geared up to do a 3km TT with me. He was actually going to run alongside and pace me to a good time. I had to decline and he was very disappointed. I just didn't feel up to it.

Instead I opted for the session everyone else was doing - which was 2km, 1km, 500m and 1km.

It was hard work the whole time and I was way way off what I normally do on this session. My HR was also through the roof sitting on around 182 most of the time.

So you can laugh, my times were: 8:21, 4:32, 1:56 and 4:27.

Normally I aim for running sub 8min, 3:55, 1:50 and 3:55.
What a joke.
Everyone was flying past me and I was getting more and more frustrated.
My only consolation is the nausea has abated. I just need to get my energy levels back up.

Wednesday, March 29, 2006

Early morning run

12 easy km this morning. Felt like crap and finished in a heap.
Thats what not running for 3 days does to you.

Tuesday, March 28, 2006

Crisis Averted

Thanks guys for your great suggestions and offers!!!

Will have to remember the Premier's jet for next time. :)

Hubby gave me a valium when I got home then calmly went through our Visa statements (we had 8 flights booked in Jan) and called Qantas and Virgin until between them we isolated a charge and flight booking.

I am booked. I am just stupid.

Depart on Friday at 3pm from Bris-Vegas.

As a Qantas frequent flyer I usually always travel Qantas but for some reason the prices must have been great on Virgin (return flight for $203) so I booked then.

I think I need a run now......

And you thought the news yesterday was bad......

today is even worse!!!

Great news from the Doctor. Not pregnant. Yippee. Can run again.

Am lactose intolerant so he thinks it is giving me symptoms that mimic the nausea and tiredness. Am on a strict bread and water diet for 3-4 days.

But fuck it my day got worse when my mother rang and asked for my itinery. I sent it to her and it was the one for my sisters wedding (the fortnight after). She said 'no the one for the marathon'.

I have forgotten to book my airfare.

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Monday, March 27, 2006

Worst possible news......

Took today off work after coming down ill Sunday morning. Not flu or cold but tummy ache and nausea.

Went into Doctor this afternoon and after some tests he has banned running.

He has also banned NSAID's - not that I had any for two days. I took 2 after my long run to help with the hip bursitis. Aside from them I have not had any since last week.

Test results back tomorrow as he stamped it with priority. Likely to be a big hula over nothing and I can guarantee you come hail or shine I will be out running Wednesday morning......regardless.

Saturday, March 25, 2006

Done like a Dinner

21km this morning. Have no idea of pace. Course could be out by 800m so not entirely accurate either - really just going by what everyone tells me we ran (those with Garmins).

From Regatta out to New Farm for a lap before coming home again.

Aside from 5:05 min/km pace for the warm up 2kms, Phil and I had a good solid pace going the rest of the way. We stopped at halfway and waited for the group to catch up. Then we moved out again - with me taking all my fluids and gu on the go, it was a good run.
Moved the pace up a notch and when we got back onto km markers we were doing 4:34 pace. Kept that up for the last 4km home then finished with a 4:21. No one was around me so hard to push it much past that. Would have liked Chilli Pants or Phil to egg me on to a faster finish.

So that's me. Done. Not quite burnt toast but nice and golden. Just have to sit back and ride out the next two weeks and wait anxiously to see what Tessos moves are.
Thinking of you girlfriend :) *waves madly*

Marshalling at BRRC tomorrow morning for the 7-35km self select.

Friday, March 24, 2006

Not that fast after all....

I went to bed all fired up that I would get up this morning and run damn hard.

I was hoping to do an 8km time trial so I could tell Eagle and he could then tell me what that meant in regards to a time at Canberra.
Unfortunately I got there and instead of sneaking off for a warmup Coach Chris wanted to talk to me and question me on every food I had been eating and what I was cooking for dinner tonight...(I'll know about 20mins beforehand!!!)

So no warm up. No taper of course either. I set off and told myself to be sensible and did 5min for 1st km. Then 4:50 for next one. Warmup complete. The next 5km I did at 4:30 pace but never got any faster until the last one which I then did at 4:20. It was hard work and I never felt anywhere near as comfortable as I did in the half marathon. It honestly felt like a 3km time trial the whole way!!! I just never got in the groove. :( I hope that doesn't happen at Canberra.

I had a smelly old man come up beside me and he had really bad BO. He said hello then went in front for a bit. I had to overtake just to breathe again but unfortunately that didn't sit well with him so he re-took the lead. I then slowed down to get some fresh air but he did too - was obviously wanting to stay with me but just in front. Dammit. Stupid smelly men why can't they wear deoderant like the rest of us???
Trust me when I finish a race all smelly and sweaty I am very conscious of it - but I never run without deoderant and will throw away old clothes once they become ingrained with the sweaty 'smell'. So by all means someone please tell me if I am one of those really bad smelly people won't you????

Thursday, March 23, 2006

Leopard Skin G -String story....

I um do hope Pat Carroll never reads my blog.....

Last year Pat had a box for us to all put our jumpers, car keys etc in to be minded when we went on our runs. However he made an announcement at the end of one month that the box had some items in it that had been there a while and he got all grumpy about not being a "lost property" man. Now Pat doesn't really get grumpy so we all thought this was hilarious and I proposed with some other scoundrels (oh Tess that's you) to put items in the box each week. We had some old clothes we didn't need anymore, Tess threw in a chocolate Kit Kat (I almost went back and got it out!!!) and I snuck in a leopard skin G-string a few weeks later. So by now he had a box of weird items.

The G-string caught his eye and to stop his lovely partner Susan thinking someone had given it to him he pinned it to his postboard and asked the group to please collect their G string at the end of the session. There was no way we could tell him what we had done. We hardly ran well that day we were laughing so hard!!!

I laughed even harder when Pat came up to whisper that he thought it was one of the girls and who did I think it was?

So there you have it. Needless to say months later Pat actually made me run in the G-string just before my Kurrawa race. Not being the quiet introverted sort I put it on (steady Eddie - over my shorts mate!) and ran as fast as I could.



TODAYS SESSION
Just did 50mins of tempo running. Felt good after the initial 5mins. Have no idea whatsoever of pace or distance, I was running with the Pat Carroll group after doing a warmup by myself and they were doing fast 2min, slow 30sec and I just kept running at the same pace for the whole time alongside them. I followed up with a run on my own through Southbank and then did the warmdown with some of the Pat Carrollers.

Wednesday, March 22, 2006

So slow it killed me.....

Got to the Regatta at 5:22am but people had left already!!! So I had no-one I knew to run with. At 5:30am (was only waiting in vain hope for someone I knew to turn up...) I took off. A guy called Gary came up to me and asked where the 12km course was. He was wearing boardshorts (so obviously NOT a serious runner) and was pretty cute. I told him the course and mentioned I was going that way. So off we trotted. Started out at 5:15min/km pace but it soon became evident that what was a warmup for me was his gut busting pace.
Clap on the back to this fellow for I made him run with me for 9km at that pace - slighly increasing to 5:05. He then proceeded to really wind it down but by then we were back on the coro track heading for the Regatta so I told him I would see him back there. Was happy to do 4:40's for the last three km.

I realised on today's run that the slower I run the worse I feel. The 4:40's felt bloody great and I could have gone forever. The slower stuff I was all niggly and felt tight calf and sore hip and sore back and and and and and

Definitely hanging out for a massage again - my butt is like stone and I don't mean in a nice toned way (unfortunately for anyone's who's seen me in a gstring) but the muscles are all tight and I feel it when I walk up and down the stairs at work.

Tuesday, March 21, 2006

SPEED SPEED AND HILLS

Was moaning when doing the warm up this morning at Pats. I was achy and tired all over. Mostly from the gym. My arms were just so heavy!!

By the end of the warm up I was starting to pick up mentally and felt a lot better.

The group was large (again!) and it was good to see some elite athletes as well as some new runners to the group.

We ran out to New Farm and then had 15min of fartlek. 1min fast, 30sec slow, 30sec fast, 15sec slow, 15sec sprint, 15sec slow REPEAT X4.

At the end of the four reps we had to run the length of the road and then there was a very steep hill to go up near the Story Bridge. All up a decent 500m effort. I was running strongly and then Pat said "top 10 runners have to do two reps of the hill"
I wasn't paying much attention as some guys were going past me and giving me good pep talks as well. Me, I couldn't breathe, let alone talk to anyone.
Then the hill came and I just shot up it. Went past 4 fast blokes!!! I should have paid more attention to Pat...I got to the top and was sent straight back down. I was number 10 runner. Ecstatic to be so in front. But hurting to have to do that again. A few guys who were after me decided to keep me company on the rep and they pushed me up which was very welcome.

Certainly feel like I ran well and hard today. I will only be going to Pat's sessions now if he has speedwork that is suitable for marathon (ie 500m or 1k reps). Otherwise I will just go to Chris's sessions at the track for the next two weeks. Don't want to do hills or twist my ankle running on the bark in the gardens etc.
As Tess said - it's cotton wool time now!!!

Monday, March 20, 2006

PROGRAM BLUNDER!!

Dammit. I checked the program this morning to see what I had to run this week.
Oops was meant to run 16km on Sunday (after 36km on Sat) to build up the legs. Crap. I rested instead. Oh well I think I needed it more. Will get out and run tonight if I have time.

Went to the gym this morning to thrash myself and managed to do that quite well. My whole body is now one big ache.
Went hard on the weight repetitions, pushups, pullups, etc etc etc. Then hit the showers and refused to leave. God Bless hot water!

My burns are starting to fade (note to runners: do not apply ice directly to leg and leave for 30mins) and hopefully I will be able to ice again (with a teatowel this time) after a hot bath and stretching session tonight.

Saturday, March 18, 2006

Last long long run.....

Well until the 9th of April that is!!!

Some weirdo (good friend Liz) decided a 5am start would be in good order this morning so I found myself running in the dark for 30mins with a group of eager people this morning.
Once the sun came up and I realised who everyone was..ha ha...I started to relax and enjoy myself. The sun came out and it was extremely humid. I had a lot of water and a glass of powerade before I started so I wasn't too concerned about dehydrating but certainly the bladder needed a pit stop again. I do so hope that getting up a few hours before the start (instead of 40mins like I do for my long runs) will give me plenty of time to settle the nerves and have the 50 toilet breaks I seem to require before a race.

We were running strong today and the average pace for 35km was 5:10min/km so I was chuffed with this. I know I ran quite a few km faster than this - a) because I was trying to get a good lead on everyone in the group so I could stop at the loo without holding them up and b) Glenn shot past us at the 12km mark when we stopped for a drink so it was absolutely necessary to round him up later on even though that meant we had to run 4:40min/km pace for a few km.

So yes by 30km I was bone weary and was looking forward to the end. I also had chaffing under my arm from a singlet I had on (usually wear crop tops only) and my feet were all blistered still from last weekend. I dont think I got any more today but one lost toenail did not make for a fun ending to the run.

I was very disappointed this morning. Not because of the distance or the time -both I am very happy about. But more because as Chilli Pants said "bit of an anticlimax really". That's exactly what today was. No Tesso to whip my enthusiam up a few notches and nothing but 'right that one's done' when we finished. Where was the bottle of bollinger and big crowd to say "FABULOUS RUN CLAIRIE, looking good for Canberra now" like in my dreams??

To top it all off I ordered pancakes with bananas and again the bananas didn't come. Most upset. Apparently it is just me. Chilli pants wife got her bananas last week. I complained and they went off in search of a bananna and we never saw any of the staff again. The Brissy Running Buddies have now blackballed that establishment for breakfast. We needed a change anyhow...

So in the words of my favourite runner.....ho hum